It is a pleasure to see you here
in Roswell. I think that you said that you
grew up in this area. I think you said that
you lived here when you were about 3 to 13
I lived here from
when I was five until I went off to College.
We had a family business in the valley. It
was between Roswell and Artesia.
talked you into coming to speak here at the
I resisted for a long
Did you resist because it was connected with
the UFO phenomenon?
No. I think I’ve
reached the point that I‘m convinced enough
of the reality of the ET presence and I’m
not going to deny it and shy away from it. I
don’t get into it in detail. That is not my
I know that your area is more the
Well, I think it is
an interaction there. Particularly since
there does seem to be a non-local
communication or mental tie here with some
of these functions, whether they are real or
not, I don’t know.
Can I ask you, why is it they pick you of
all the astronauts? In the media you have
been selected as one who represents the
astronauts' testimony as to this UFO
reality, although you mentioned you never
saw one in space. Gordon Cooper talks a lot
more about it in his book Leap of Faith. So
why you? Is it by talking about the
metaphysical they have attached you to the
I think it was the
personal connection, since I had personal
contacts in this area. I think it is my
credibility as a scientist. I am very, very
incredulous about what I see. I can’t throw
caveats in. I don’t make blanket statements.
Although my experience is not first hand
experience, I have become a spokesman for my
colleagues who did have first hand
experience. I am very clear about all of
these things and I am very clear about where
our lack of knowledge is. What is the
frontier? What are the unknowns? What are
the parameters that we don’t understand? I
think this gives me a lot of credibility.
What advice would you give those serious
researchers that want an answer and, let’s
say, dream of harmony with cosmic cultures?
What advice would you give them?
We are dealing with a
difficult process here. The main problem is
that we, as an Earth civilization, have not
come to understand ourselves; see ourselves
in a cosmic sense at all. We are still very
provincial. We fight over religion. In my
opinion, fundamentalist Christians are just
as bad as fundamentalist Islam and, at the
very core, neither religion is like that. In
the inner core of both of them, these
religions talk about qualities like Love and
You are saying that there are more
similarities than differences?
Of course. It’s the
cultural differences. It is not an intrinsic
difference. It is like I said in my talk
last night: "the transcendent experience is
common to every culture in the world" and
the transcendent experience is Brotherly
Love, Nature, Harmony, the Unity, and
cultures, in trying to define it, try to
define an external deity as opposed to the
It is easier that way because you don’t have
any responsibility. I guess a proverb could
be: You can blame it on the devil or God. It
is a lack of taking responsibility for who
Well, that’s right,
and our ignorance, and it is based on the
egos we have. It is the unwillingness to go
beyond ego. Transcendence gets you beyond
ego. If you go beyond ego, you see all of
this in a more decent perspective and you
can start to put all pieces together. We
haven’t done that yet. Not as a
That is why you think that contact is not
likely until we get there. Right? Humanity
as a species is not there. You mentioned in
your talk yesterday, if they ask where you
are from, you don’t say from Earth, you say
Yes. That’s true
So do you
think there has to be a one world, kind of,
Of course that is
what has to happen.
People have some commonality. Right?
In due course, that’s
what has got to happen. If we survive that
long. We might wipe ourselves out before
that. I don’t think it is a forgone
conclusion that we are going to survive.
That is where the philosophic, the whole
notion of determinism and what the future is
like, applies. We are creating the future.
It is not determined. If we get our act
together and solve our current problems, we
could have a sustainable, abundant future.
If we don’t, we could wipe ourselves out. We
are on the verge of doing it with our
current politics. It is regressive; going
back the other way.
I need to ask you a personal question. Would
you have liked to have contact with a cosmic
Yes. Of course!
This is very ironic because you are the
chief astronaut spokesman for the ET
presence and have never had contact. [That
is] like me, who has been in this work for
over 30 years now and has never seen a UFO.
Yes. I would. I would
like to speak from first-hand experience
instead of second-hand experience.
Has it been lonely for you to have this
vision and not many people to share it with,
because the vision you have is kind of a
"completion" vision; a kind of overall
picture vision, and it is true that you are
spending three quarters of your time trying
to explain it to people.
I would not put it in
those terms because I spend ninety per cent
of my time trying to explain it to myself!
But you know that is truth for you. You are
outspoken about that.
Well, I‘d like to
discover Truth; when I can latch on to
something that I think is true. Our
knowledge base is incomplete and all we do
is keep adding to our knowledge base. I
think it laughable, frankly, that the
Physics community comes up with a theory for
everything. There isn’t one theory for
everything. There is not one explanation. We
may eventually have several theories that
can tie things together nicely but there is
not a single theory of everything.
Like the Big Bang being the main theory of
creation - and what about Super String
theory and others…?
Well, the Big Bang
has gone away but as far as Super String
that is suspicious for me. It all starts out
with the notion of Big Bang, which
starts out, if it were true, starts out with
incredibly high temperatures. So they think
[we] need to get these high temperatures for
this broken symmetry; all this broken
symmetry reunited, and we do not have enough
energy in the whole galaxy to get to those
temperatures, to prove their point. To me,
that is the single flaw in Super String
theory. Now there are a lot of good points
but if it could hold together any better
than the Big Bang theory I don’t
know. I’m not a physicist.
You are not going in that direction. You are
more into the awareness and what you can
accomplish as a human. Is that right?
Yes. And I also think
we are moving into a direction of quantum
cosmology, as opposed to starting with "big
bang" and trying to make quantum physics fit
Quantum Cosmology. That’s a new term.
That originates from
Quantum processes. That is, the quantum
fluctuations within a zero-point field can
start the process that builds the process,
which builds into matter, an irreversible
process. We have some evidence that suggests
that. We don’t have a Big Bang but we have a
lot of little pops! A continuous set of
That is a good metaphor. In your talk, one
of the things you talked about is that the
"intent" creates action. The intent creates
our reality, which makes us who we are. If
that is true, then that makes us powerful on
a planet that has always been undermined by
great powers trying to put down the masses.
So, is the idea that "intent" creates, and
we can create realities, and we can also
We are creating. I
don’t create yours and you don’t create mine
but we each create "ours!"
In the past we have always given up our
power to the power structures, so would you
agree that it is very likely unpopular to
the individual people and that it is hard
for them to believe they have power?
You have to tie it
with transcendence because, when you
transcend the transcendent states, you get
past the ego structure, and at that point
you don’t need laws, you have "morality!"
You have inborn, natural ethics because it
is built on Love.
That seems to be the secret word.
Yes. That is why the
ancient traditions, even Christianity, say
God is Love. There is symmetry here. The
fundamental step where you get into this
transcendent state is this feeling of
ebullience, love and caring and unity.
And you do not need laws.
That is the law! You
learn to live in that. It is hard to live in
that too when you are in this world, that is
why the great mystics go to the mountains
tops; to get away from the world, so they
don’t have to deal with it - but it doesn’t
help the world that much."
I do admit that to effect
change you need to submit to the "slings and
arrows of outrageous fortune" and,
especially for a woman researcher, it
becomes a severe credibility issue. We all
get discouraged at times but to have a
conversation like this with Dr. Mitchell was
a once-in-a-lifetime event. The metaphysical
methodology he speaks about is the very
"key" to unlocking the phenomena. This
wisdom is that of many centuries of study.